Interview with Phil Gould
This article is a reprint of an interview RLCM conducted with Phil Gould, then Head Coach of the 2002 NRL Premiership team the Sydney Roosters, it was first published in that year.
Q. A Coaches Role
I guess I have always taken the approach right from the very start and, particularly at this level, that the players and staff in our club don't work for me, I work for them.
I find the job of a first grade coach a huge responsibility in that there are a lot of people in the club depending upon the things you do and the attitude you take.
Players careers depend upon a lot of the work that the coach does and in this day and age their livelihood and the livelihood of their families depend upon that work.
I try to meet or recognise that responsibility with the commitment it deserves and I find that I feel obligated to them to be giving everything they need to achieve whatever it is they want to do and achieve what we want too.
It's a responsibility to the players and the staff that your job is very important to them and you're working for them, which is my attitude as a coach.
Q. Be Prepared to Listen and Learn
The key thing that I look at is that I'm very aware of my own weaknesses, as a coach and as a person. I try to work hard to make sure those weaknesses don't affect anyone else and don't affect me.
I don't take myself too seriously and I can laugh at myself and in that way because I know that I'm not perfect I don't think that my team will ever be perfect and I can accept that.
We all work on those things, and are all very honest with ourselves about what it is we need to do to improve and all the things we need to avoid or weaknesses we may have that we don't want to affect the end result.
I see that as a strength in myself because I am always conscious of it. I think to be a good first grade coach and whether you are going to be a teacher or a coach or in any of these types of positions of authority you've got to be a good listener and a good learner and be prepared to do both.
Q. Watch and Study Players and the Game
Some people can't win with them but you can't win without them. You have to have good players and the quality of the players will make the quality of the coach.
I am not trying to down play my role or the coaches role because it is very important and we work hard, but certainly the quality of the people you are dealing with makes it so much easier.
I've got a great passion for the game in that I have the capacity to watch a lot of football, not just watch it, I mean I really study it.
I watch more of what's happening off the ball than I do what's doing with the ball.
I hate to watch football on TV because I don't think you see the game, so I go out and watch a lot of football live, I go out every weekend, any spare time, I'm always going to a football game to watch it live because I think, you know, off the ball is a main part of the game and that's where you see the strengths and weaknesses and I've got a capacity for that.
I've got a great thirst for it, I really study it with a great memory for it.
I can remember things and pull things out that I have seen or looked at. I can look at things and probably ask why or how did that happen.
Sometimes thoughts and things develop from that which you can take back to your players.
The game is constantly changing. It's changing because there are so many good coaches around now, with playing experience and are very analytical.
Players look at why they have success and failure and players today have become greater students of the game. There are players that are that inquisitive about the game and not just there to play and be physical but also to look at why and how things happen.
That makes you more aware, more alert, makes players anticipate greater, they're the real keys to successful players.
There is an expectation from players, maybe from yourself or your club or supporters to perform each week.
Q. Look after Today First
We understand that there will be ebbs and flows in the course of a season, both individually and as a team.
We treat each day the same in what we do, we really try to keep ourselves, in the short term, in the moment and virtually look after today.
If you do that, each day runs into the next and each game runs into the next and each month runs into the next and then in the longer term each season runs into the next season.
It's a real day in, day out honesty, review what you have done, work on what you can, look forward to the new events of the next day.
Rather than just looking at the end result all the time if you get too much tied up in the win/loss and what this game might mean or that game might mean you are not really concentrating on the job at hand.
When players are on the field that's what you want them to do, you want them to concentrate on what they're doing right at this moment.
Q. Weekly Preparation
We try to keep it as similar as possible. If we travel away, we travel the day before the game and stay overnight.
There are times even in Sydney where I will put them into camp the night before the game depending on the opposition, or how much preparation we have had during that week.
How many days we have had to prepare, how we are injury wise, is our team stable, have we got new players coming into the team.
A lot of things determine exactly what you can and can't do in a week's preparation. I have in my own mind, I am very flexible, I can change things very quickly but basically there is a set routine to follow.
It's difficult in the NRL now because you could play a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, a day game, a night game, an away game, in New Zealand, North Queensland, Melbourne or Sydney.
You may play Sunday one week, Friday the next week, then Saturday the next week so our preparation times are different.
We put a lot of work into our pre-season so that our preparations are short cut during the season. Early in the week a lot of physical recovery and rehab work and review of the weekend's performance.
I'll do it through videos, a bit 50/50 whether I run that by the players, or myself looking at it is enough to do the drills and things I want to do and often we are on the same wave length.
We know what we have done good or bad, and know that there are things that if they were a little bit rusty last week, even though we won you still have to go back, review and look to improve.
Sometimes when you win you know that there are things that will hurt you this week if we repeat them, so we need to get out and drill those and get them into our minds.
In the middle of the week I give them a spell while I get them ready for the last couple of days in preparation for the next team and we'll have a look at the opposition and what we are going to take into the game.
Q. Individual Coaching
People went to America and looked at their systems and the one thing I got out of their system was the idea of individual coaching and being specific about what certain individuals need.
Our basic thought with our players both from a fitness level, physical level and a skill level is that we look at their work space and what type of work space they have.
Obviously a front rower has a different work space to a winger who has a different work space to a full back who has a different work space to a half back or a centre.
Our basic thought is to make them as strong, as fast and as skilful in their own work space as we possible can.
If you had a still camera on a front row forward for the course of the game, you would see that he has a completely different work space to a winger or a full back and looks at different things.
The length and quantity of his runs, what's there to meet him at the end of each run, defensively what they have to play.
We define the work space as the role of the individual position.
Nowadays most players play probably left and right in defence and similarly in attack where back rowers divide their game up between them at the ruck, off the play the ball, and off first receiver and some even like to get a little wider, they sometimes play long side, short side.
There are different ways that they can have themselves in the game.
They may relate to dummy half, half back, five eight or work with centres down the short side.
I mean if you look at each individual position and how their position relates to other positions on the field, we really try to define their work space and what they do so that our front rowers speed work and agility work is a lot different to what we give the centre or the winger.
Their skill work is a lot different to what we give full backs and half backs. Their defensive work is a lot different to what we give, and what we try to do, is combine in each work out as much physical skill and mental training at the one time as we can, rather than trying to oscillate between a strength session and a skill session, and then a speed session and then maybe a mental relaxation session.
We try to get as much of it as we can into the one workout because basically they're going to use it at the one time and we try to be as very specific on that as we can.
Then within our team we have smaller teams, with all those smaller teams there are some bigger teams. Hopefully we can blend into the one team and so there is a lot of individual work.
Q. Everything in Training is 100%
You read all these things, it's 80% mental and 20% physical, or it's 10% mental and 90% physical.
It's a 100% everything.
You've got to use it all at the same time and without the mental, the physical isn't enough and without the physical the mental isn't enough.
Basically where the game is going to be decided at this level, particularly the big games, is at the point where the pressure is great and the player still can execute or the player can still respond to the situation and the other player can't.
If you look at the big plays that decide a game and roll the tape back 10 seconds and see where the winner and loser came from, these are the type of pressure situations we try to create in training.
We try to create an imagery that when the big play comes and we never know it's coming we're going to be there to meet it and that is the thing, you never know when it's coming but everyone can tell you when it has happened.
You have got to train them that way all the time, we do not divide our work into a strength work out, a speed work out, a skill work out or a mental work out. We try to combine as much as we can into the one type to try and execute defence and attack under stress and under physical fatigue and still find the right play.
That's a key element of what we do. In answer to your question, what's the breakup, I don't think there is a break up. It is 100% of the lot, you have to train the lot together.
Work a lot of game type situations. A lot of it is responsive work, out there and at the key play and the key moments it is going to get down to one on one, or two on two or three on three.
There's going to be a pocket of activity and someone is going to come out of it better. We've got to make sure that we're there to meet it and that whether we are fatigued or under stress or under pressure that we can meet it the same way we would normally meet it.
Q. Teams with Instinctive Players have an ‘Edge'
They're invited to be as brilliant or as impulsive as they like, but you often hear this argument about structured play, patterns of play or set plays.
All the successful teams are well drilled and have good patterns and good plays. At the end of their structure obviously the teams with the players that are great instinctively, have the edge, but to be able to get your good players in that type of condition is also an important factor.
People underestimate how difficult that is and they also overestimate how many players can actually do it. I've always held the belief that particularly at the top level, a lot of the really good instinctive, impulsive and skilful players never get through to the level.
They never graduate out of the lower grades or the juniors because of all the other elements in the game, they can't come to terms with.
Those that make it, don't stay there for long because they can't come to terms with all those other things.
Their stay in first grade will not be determined by their talent level or their instinctiveness, it will be determined by whether or not they can handle the rest of the game.
Obviously the more talented the player the better. It is like everything with coaching, we all train to be bigger and stronger but it helps if you've got big strong players and we all train to be fast but it helps if you have fast players and we all train to be more skilful but it helps if you've got skilful players.
The majority of things that make a good player what they are, hasn't been coached into them, we coach the other things into them, so that on top of their talent they have the necessary capacity to perform under pressure or to perform the other things in the game that are more important.
Those type of players, in terms of elite athletes, don't really reach this mental level until all the motor skills or physical skills are right.
They are getting better at it from an early age. Because the coaching is better and players are now becoming more students of the game they keep asking these questions why, they have also become better teachers or imparters of knowledge in the game.
The greatest learning experience for a player is on the field with people that have been there before.
A coach can go to a certain level with it but for younger players to be on the field with champion players can set this learning experience up.
You tend to see that success follows success because you are bringing young people to successful situations with successful people.
With players who can perform under pressure and understand what needs to be done off the field in preparation for that and on the field how to handle it whether it's going good or going bad, is a great asset to young footballers.
Q. There is No Right or Wrong Way
I don't know that there is a right way or a wrong way to play the game.
I don't know that one way to play the game is any better and I think if our rules are right and they are interpreted correctly it is healthy that we have so many different styles of play and that you can be successful at that style.
I don't really know that there is one best way to do it but if you pick something that is effective you can win with it.
The thing about being well drilled and about having patterns is that it helps you stand up under pressure. It helps you get your best athletes in good positions at the right time.
It helps them to be able to anticipate more, we overestimate how many players can do that for themselves and without the assistance of a team pattern or a team structure or whatever, some players would struggle.
They are physically, emotionally and mentally first grade footballers but they are not the initiative people that we see who end up playing touch football or something like that.
We have got to be able to help those players in positions to help your key players and those types of players do what they do best.
They need the rest of the team working in a certain direction and that is what it does. It provides something to fall back on under pressure and helps all the players in the team mesh better in what they are doing.
This extract is from an RLCM Coachtalk Book
This article is a reprint of an interview RLCM conducted with Phil Gould, then Head Coach of the 2002 NRL Premiership team the Sydney Roosters, it was first published in that year.
Q. A Coaches Role
I guess I have always taken the approach right from the very start and, particularly at this level, that the players and staff in our club don't work for me, I work for them.
I find the job of a first grade coach a huge responsibility in that there are a lot of people in the club depending upon the things you do and the attitude you take.
Players careers depend upon a lot of the work that the coach does and in this day and age their livelihood and the livelihood of their families depend upon that work.
I try to meet or recognise that responsibility with the commitment it deserves and I find that I feel obligated to them to be giving everything they need to achieve whatever it is they want to do and achieve what we want too.
It's a responsibility to the players and the staff that your job is very important to them and you're working for them, which is my attitude as a coach.
Q. Be Prepared to Listen and Learn
The key thing that I look at is that I'm very aware of my own weaknesses, as a coach and as a person. I try to work hard to make sure those weaknesses don't affect anyone else and don't affect me.
I don't take myself too seriously and I can laugh at myself and in that way because I know that I'm not perfect I don't think that my team will ever be perfect and I can accept that.
We all work on those things, and are all very honest with ourselves about what it is we need to do to improve and all the things we need to avoid or weaknesses we may have that we don't want to affect the end result.
I see that as a strength in myself because I am always conscious of it. I think to be a good first grade coach and whether you are going to be a teacher or a coach or in any of these types of positions of authority you've got to be a good listener and a good learner and be prepared to do both.
Q. Watch and Study Players and the Game
Some people can't win with them but you can't win without them. You have to have good players and the quality of the players will make the quality of the coach.
I am not trying to down play my role or the coaches role because it is very important and we work hard, but certainly the quality of the people you are dealing with makes it so much easier.
I've got a great passion for the game in that I have the capacity to watch a lot of football, not just watch it, I mean I really study it.
I watch more of what's happening off the ball than I do what's doing with the ball.
I hate to watch football on TV because I don't think you see the game, so I go out and watch a lot of football live, I go out every weekend, any spare time, I'm always going to a football game to watch it live because I think, you know, off the ball is a main part of the game and that's where you see the strengths and weaknesses and I've got a capacity for that.
I've got a great thirst for it, I really study it with a great memory for it.
I can remember things and pull things out that I have seen or looked at. I can look at things and probably ask why or how did that happen.
Sometimes thoughts and things develop from that which you can take back to your players.
The game is constantly changing. It's changing because there are so many good coaches around now, with playing experience and are very analytical.
Players look at why they have success and failure and players today have become greater students of the game. There are players that are that inquisitive about the game and not just there to play and be physical but also to look at why and how things happen.
That makes you more aware, more alert, makes players anticipate greater, they're the real keys to successful players.
There is an expectation from players, maybe from yourself or your club or supporters to perform each week.
Q. Look after Today First
We understand that there will be ebbs and flows in the course of a season, both individually and as a team.
We treat each day the same in what we do, we really try to keep ourselves, in the short term, in the moment and virtually look after today.
If you do that, each day runs into the next and each game runs into the next and each month runs into the next and then in the longer term each season runs into the next season.
It's a real day in, day out honesty, review what you have done, work on what you can, look forward to the new events of the next day.
Rather than just looking at the end result all the time if you get too much tied up in the win/loss and what this game might mean or that game might mean you are not really concentrating on the job at hand.
When players are on the field that's what you want them to do, you want them to concentrate on what they're doing right at this moment.
Q. Weekly Preparation
We try to keep it as similar as possible. If we travel away, we travel the day before the game and stay overnight.
There are times even in Sydney where I will put them into camp the night before the game depending on the opposition, or how much preparation we have had during that week.
How many days we have had to prepare, how we are injury wise, is our team stable, have we got new players coming into the team.
A lot of things determine exactly what you can and can't do in a week's preparation. I have in my own mind, I am very flexible, I can change things very quickly but basically there is a set routine to follow.
It's difficult in the NRL now because you could play a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, a day game, a night game, an away game, in New Zealand, North Queensland, Melbourne or Sydney.
You may play Sunday one week, Friday the next week, then Saturday the next week so our preparation times are different.
We put a lot of work into our pre-season so that our preparations are short cut during the season. Early in the week a lot of physical recovery and rehab work and review of the weekend's performance.
I'll do it through videos, a bit 50/50 whether I run that by the players, or myself looking at it is enough to do the drills and things I want to do and often we are on the same wave length.
We know what we have done good or bad, and know that there are things that if they were a little bit rusty last week, even though we won you still have to go back, review and look to improve.
Sometimes when you win you know that there are things that will hurt you this week if we repeat them, so we need to get out and drill those and get them into our minds.
In the middle of the week I give them a spell while I get them ready for the last couple of days in preparation for the next team and we'll have a look at the opposition and what we are going to take into the game.
Q. Individual Coaching
People went to America and looked at their systems and the one thing I got out of their system was the idea of individual coaching and being specific about what certain individuals need.
Our basic thought with our players both from a fitness level, physical level and a skill level is that we look at their work space and what type of work space they have.
Obviously a front rower has a different work space to a winger who has a different work space to a full back who has a different work space to a half back or a centre.
Our basic thought is to make them as strong, as fast and as skilful in their own work space as we possible can.
If you had a still camera on a front row forward for the course of the game, you would see that he has a completely different work space to a winger or a full back and looks at different things.
The length and quantity of his runs, what's there to meet him at the end of each run, defensively what they have to play.
We define the work space as the role of the individual position.
Nowadays most players play probably left and right in defence and similarly in attack where back rowers divide their game up between them at the ruck, off the play the ball, and off first receiver and some even like to get a little wider, they sometimes play long side, short side.
There are different ways that they can have themselves in the game.
They may relate to dummy half, half back, five eight or work with centres down the short side.
I mean if you look at each individual position and how their position relates to other positions on the field, we really try to define their work space and what they do so that our front rowers speed work and agility work is a lot different to what we give the centre or the winger.
Their skill work is a lot different to what we give full backs and half backs. Their defensive work is a lot different to what we give, and what we try to do, is combine in each work out as much physical skill and mental training at the one time as we can, rather than trying to oscillate between a strength session and a skill session, and then a speed session and then maybe a mental relaxation session.
We try to get as much of it as we can into the one workout because basically they're going to use it at the one time and we try to be as very specific on that as we can.
Then within our team we have smaller teams, with all those smaller teams there are some bigger teams. Hopefully we can blend into the one team and so there is a lot of individual work.
Q. Everything in Training is 100%
You read all these things, it's 80% mental and 20% physical, or it's 10% mental and 90% physical.
It's a 100% everything.
You've got to use it all at the same time and without the mental, the physical isn't enough and without the physical the mental isn't enough.
Basically where the game is going to be decided at this level, particularly the big games, is at the point where the pressure is great and the player still can execute or the player can still respond to the situation and the other player can't.
If you look at the big plays that decide a game and roll the tape back 10 seconds and see where the winner and loser came from, these are the type of pressure situations we try to create in training.
We try to create an imagery that when the big play comes and we never know it's coming we're going to be there to meet it and that is the thing, you never know when it's coming but everyone can tell you when it has happened.
You have got to train them that way all the time, we do not divide our work into a strength work out, a speed work out, a skill work out or a mental work out. We try to combine as much as we can into the one type to try and execute defence and attack under stress and under physical fatigue and still find the right play.
That's a key element of what we do. In answer to your question, what's the breakup, I don't think there is a break up. It is 100% of the lot, you have to train the lot together.
Work a lot of game type situations. A lot of it is responsive work, out there and at the key play and the key moments it is going to get down to one on one, or two on two or three on three.
There's going to be a pocket of activity and someone is going to come out of it better. We've got to make sure that we're there to meet it and that whether we are fatigued or under stress or under pressure that we can meet it the same way we would normally meet it.
Q. Teams with Instinctive Players have an ‘Edge'
They're invited to be as brilliant or as impulsive as they like, but you often hear this argument about structured play, patterns of play or set plays.
All the successful teams are well drilled and have good patterns and good plays. At the end of their structure obviously the teams with the players that are great instinctively, have the edge, but to be able to get your good players in that type of condition is also an important factor.
People underestimate how difficult that is and they also overestimate how many players can actually do it. I've always held the belief that particularly at the top level, a lot of the really good instinctive, impulsive and skilful players never get through to the level.
They never graduate out of the lower grades or the juniors because of all the other elements in the game, they can't come to terms with.
Those that make it, don't stay there for long because they can't come to terms with all those other things.
Their stay in first grade will not be determined by their talent level or their instinctiveness, it will be determined by whether or not they can handle the rest of the game.
Obviously the more talented the player the better. It is like everything with coaching, we all train to be bigger and stronger but it helps if you've got big strong players and we all train to be fast but it helps if you have fast players and we all train to be more skilful but it helps if you've got skilful players.
The majority of things that make a good player what they are, hasn't been coached into them, we coach the other things into them, so that on top of their talent they have the necessary capacity to perform under pressure or to perform the other things in the game that are more important.
Those type of players, in terms of elite athletes, don't really reach this mental level until all the motor skills or physical skills are right.
They are getting better at it from an early age. Because the coaching is better and players are now becoming more students of the game they keep asking these questions why, they have also become better teachers or imparters of knowledge in the game.
The greatest learning experience for a player is on the field with people that have been there before.
A coach can go to a certain level with it but for younger players to be on the field with champion players can set this learning experience up.
You tend to see that success follows success because you are bringing young people to successful situations with successful people.
With players who can perform under pressure and understand what needs to be done off the field in preparation for that and on the field how to handle it whether it's going good or going bad, is a great asset to young footballers.
Q. There is No Right or Wrong Way
I don't know that there is a right way or a wrong way to play the game.
I don't know that one way to play the game is any better and I think if our rules are right and they are interpreted correctly it is healthy that we have so many different styles of play and that you can be successful at that style.
I don't really know that there is one best way to do it but if you pick something that is effective you can win with it.
The thing about being well drilled and about having patterns is that it helps you stand up under pressure. It helps you get your best athletes in good positions at the right time.
It helps them to be able to anticipate more, we overestimate how many players can do that for themselves and without the assistance of a team pattern or a team structure or whatever, some players would struggle.
They are physically, emotionally and mentally first grade footballers but they are not the initiative people that we see who end up playing touch football or something like that.
We have got to be able to help those players in positions to help your key players and those types of players do what they do best.
They need the rest of the team working in a certain direction and that is what it does. It provides something to fall back on under pressure and helps all the players in the team mesh better in what they are doing.
This extract is from an RLCM Coachtalk Book
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